I rely heavily on logic and empathy. In a way, you could say they are my religion.

I am a Christian and therefore try to adhere to the tenets of Christianity. However, I'd like to think that were I not a Christian, I would still do my best to make the world a better place.

i don't feel the need of a promised after life to make me be nice to my fellow humans

if only more people felt that way, debs :)

cant always depend on religion.

Purely on what i perceive to be right and wrong.

I follow the word of God and therefore I my "logic" is based in him

^^I know you follow the word of god but do you agree with everything that you follow? I know that for you everything you follow is right - because it comes from god and he is perfect but what i mean is that do you as a human being ever think differently but follow his word anyway because he is right and you are wrong?

Tried to word it as best as i can sorry! It was more difficult than i thought!

^__^ I should think differently but I don't, thanks to his word he has given me the light and I can see clear now, yes I agree with everything I follow somethings are weird but I agree anyways, exacly he's right and me as a simple human full of sin AM wrong :)

my jaw actually dropped when i read that statement!

if god told you to stone naughty children would not question it? (if your Christian there is actually a quote related that which i can't remeber)

It upsets me that people think all humans are full of sin, yes i know no human is perfect, yes we all do bad things at some point but often we don't mean them with selfish or bad intentions,


.....actually a thought that just popped in to head
if were mere humans and plenty of us are trying to wanting to change the world for the better but we don't have the full power to do so, doesn't that make us better than a god who has the full potential to make a perfect world but doesn't?

That's a great philosophical question, debs! I think I can set up a logical proof for that... If I tried. But right now, I want French toast... but I'll do it anyway.

X= God
Y= humanity

P: That X > Y

and that's as far as I can get on an empty stomach.

I'll be back later.

i came up with a great philosophical question?

wow go me

maybe

x≥y?

EEErrr... so this means I can start a debate right??

well yes I would he wants me to he most have a good purpose and yes I wil follow everything cuz he's my God and yes Debs we are BORN sinners we ARE sinners, you that are not a Christian shouldn't understand even if you know about Christianity doesn't mean that or that you will have any idea of what I'm talking about, and I understand that.

EEerr.. no it doesn't make us better thaan a God, WHY?? because God id bigger than the universe than everything in the world you are a microscopic mini bacteria in the eyes og the true God and every one that dares to go against him shall be put to death (go to hell)
Debs remember that he HAS the power to change the world and he did that's why he sent his son Jesus and cleared all our sins and now that the world knows this it doesn't do anything about it, so it's for itself to deside and it's for us to spread the word.... don't say he hasn't done anything to change the world.

amazondebs said:
'if god told you to stone naughty children would not question it?'

deathnote said:
'well yes I would he wants me to he most have a good purpose and yes I wil follow everything cuz he's my God...'

So you do not think for yourself? At all?
This seem to be bordering on religious extremism to me.

well deathnote you don't actually follow everything god says do you? jesus says many times in the bible that people should give up all their possessions to the poor and yet you are talking to us through a computer

what is better is surly a matter of opinion? just because something is bigger or has more power doesn't make it better or good for the world
I am actually going to use a car analogy for this
we the people are humanity a tiny barly powerful speak so we are a prius a small car with not a lot of power
god is a SUV a huge car with a lot of power
but which is better for the world or our enviroment? the prius because it is trying to save the world (by reserving energy)

god gave us brains and opinions and the ability to question aka he gave us the abillity to defy god if he is the just and forgiving god i hear christians talk about so much why would he send everyone who defys him to hell?
I don't think being gay is a sin because my logic and moral code is telling it's not
I don't think it's a sin to murder in self defence because my moral code tells me it's not
I do think it is a huge sin to kill someone because they question or defy you
I do think it's a sin to kill someone because they have different believes to you

the christian god may be all power and all mighty like the SUV but that doesn't make him better than us

he did change the world when he sent down jesus but did he change it for the better?
think about all the horrible acts that have been comitted in the name of jesus, wars, terrorist attacks, discrimination and opression
god has the ability to feed the staving, to protect innocent children from phedofiles, to stop natural distasters from tearing families appart, god had the ability to stop the hallocaust and yet he didn't,
we set up charieties to try and feed the starving, we have a police force and justice system to try and protect children, we have scientists measuring the earth constantly to warn people about natural diasters and we stopped the hallocaust all with out gods help and not in the name of jesus

"Jesus and cleared all our sins and now that the world knows this it doesn't do anything about it, so it's for itself to deside and it's for us to spread the word...."

from that i gather you believe if everyone believed in jesus the world would be okay?
it is impossible to have everyone believe the same religion and there are even difference with in different christian churches how do we know which is the right way? so god has made it so the world will never be okay

the bible says satan was a fallen angel well I have read some theology that god is not pure and good but simple the first thing to exist and the most powerful being
I am begining to think maybe satan was a rebel who didn't like the way god was running things and treating the human race

Can someone who actually was Christian and left that religion understand in your eyes? Like debs, I can not understand how a loving god, who says he loves everyone, would pick and choose who he let's into heaven. And it's different in every sect of Christianity. Some say you have to have Jesus Christ as your savior and acknowledge him, Catholics say that you have to be baptized or else you'll end up in purgatory. So, to go to heaven you have to be splashed with water? That doesn't sound very loving to me.

The most brutual wars fought have all been based on the hatred of religion. The Salem Witch Trials, The Inquistion, Nothern Ireland, The Crusades, how is any of those a good thing? Religion couldn't take that someone who was raised in another belief be different and so they kill them? And yet in the commandmants he told people, 'Thou shall not kill." The commandmants which later contradicts itself in the bible. Burning, stoning, exc.

It's far better to have a moral code which says, accept people for who they are, do not kill, rape, steal...exc, then to contradict yourself.

to Debs and Sappp:

No, I don't follow, I try to follow everything but I'm not perfect just like you I'm just a human.

"people should give up all their possessions to the poor and yet you are talking to us through a computer"

Debs, I can't go to Huddersfield or to anyones house for that matter, plus I'm only 15 and therefore wouldn't it be better intead of doing nothing to tell you by computer instead of not telling you at all??? or you want me to magicaly appear in the front of your house and be like "oh hi, do you know about Jusus?"

Don't compare God to a useless truck... and I already said you don't understand why bother talking crap about him if you don't even know where I'm coming from (with all do respect) just listen.

"god gave us brains and opinions and the ability to question aka he gave us the abillity to defy god if he is the just and forgiving god i hear christians talk about so much why would he send everyone who defys him to hell?"

God gave is brains, to think what's right and wrong, and opinions to go the right path and compare what's really true, he did give us the ability to defy God, you said it yourself, but not only that he gave that he gave us the "choice" factor. In other words he is not obligating you to trust in him or to become a true Christian. So you can defy him if you want, now, one thing is certain you WILL with out question go to hell.

"I don't think being gay is a sin because my logic and moral code is telling it's not " EEr.. first of all you said the word "think" which makes it UNBIBLICAL, second, "my logic and moral code" I'm sure you didn't give yourself that moral code. I'm also sure that you tell yourself that all the time "my moral code this, my moral code that" but if your so call "moral code" or anyone's moral code is telling them that "beleif" then it's a human opinion and is also agaist God, you should go by God's perfect code instead.

God IS better than us and better than Satan let's see... he gave us life and he gave us a choise, he gave us family love and he gaev us the plasure of sex, he gave us everything that is around you, now, what will you do with it??? will you go by your moral code or will you go and appresiate him and follow his, and even the poor, even if they don't have food God will reward them after life.

"he did change the world when he sent down jesus but did he change it for the better?"
what da??? of course!! he forgive all our sins and he broke the bond of talking to him by profets,after Jesus died there was an Earthquake, it broke a cloth of his holy temple (of his) in half meaning that people don't have to go to a Church to be forgiven for their sins, and so we can talk directly to him. He changed it for us for you for yourr mom for your dad for every person living on this eath!

"think about all the horrible acts that have been comitted in the name of jesus, wars, terrorist attacks, discrimination and opression
god has the ability to feed the staving, to protect innocent children from phedofiles, to stop natural distasters from tearing families appart, god had the ability to stop the hallocaust and yet he didn't"

why?? beacuse it was all the worlds fault or are you saying that God has to stop every big mystake we make? intead we learn form them and that's ther reason that he doesn't do anything about it, plus if he does do people would notice it because they don't even believe in him. So no is the time, is the time to do things for him, he already did things for you and the world, WHAT WILL YOU DO FOR HIM??


"it is impossible to have everyone believe the same religion and there are even difference with in different christian churches how do we know which is the right way? so god has made it so the world will never be okay"

I already know that everyone can't beleive and that brings us to the choise factor.

"god has made it so the world will never be okay"
GOD!!!! HAS MADE IT!!! oh no Debs, your really messed up...
WE MADE IT LIKE THIS!! WE are the ones to blame, gay marriege, US, atomic bombs, US, other religions, US, opinions agaist God, US, I can go on... but fanpop will ahev to add new pages to this pick.

and I'm no extrimist I speak the truth, and God wont tell me to stone some notty kids Sapp.


AND YOU BETTER ALL READ!!!!

deathnote i seem to have really angered you and i do apologise for that. I sincerely hope you don't think i'm trying to be nasty or that I'm trying to attack your religion i am simple typing down what ever i thought comes in to my head. If anything i only question everything because i want to understand and just want you to know i appreciated your reply and I did read all of it :D

my remark about the computer wasn't saying i think you should give up all your possessions I'm merely pointing out that you say you would follow everything and yet you chose not to follow that rule. Surly by reasoning and saying being able to tell me about jesus through the internet is more important questions god and defies what he told you to do?

i didn't mean to compare your lord to a truck i wasn trying to use a anaology to explain what i meant more clearing and as i said above i am sorry for offending you especially as i consider you a friend on fanpop
but i do have to ask what understanding you have that i don't have, I believe there could be a god, I have read parts of the bible, I have been church what knowledge do you have that i don't? your right in saying i don't fully understand where your coming from but in return maybe you don't fully understand where i' m coming from which is the point of this spot if i understand why cinder's made it correctly

how can you know for certain who is going to hell and who isn't? what if your wrong, what if god is actually the muslim god allah, I believe there's passages in the qu'ran saying that anyone who does not follow muhammed (PBUH) and allah will go to hell and nika also pointed out that christianity differs, have you been baptised if not according to certain parts in the bible you will go to hell, what about all those christians who havn't been baptised are they also going to hell for not having that water on their heads?

I believe my moral and logical code is something i have created from how i have been brought up and from what i can see does harm to other humans. why should i obey god's "perfect" law if i think some of it does more harm
like why should i start telling other's of the word of jesus and that being gay is a sin when i can see how it emotionally hurts those who are gay. I think it is wrong or a "sin" to hurt someone emocionally and even if god came down from heaven himself and told me to do so i still wouldn't because it's wrong. That's my whole point just because something or someone is powerful doesn't mean we should obey it with out question
If president obama started telling people being white is a sin just because he is in a position of power wouldn't mean people should agree with him

"and even the poor, even if they don't have food God will reward them after life" so he makes them suffer their entire life (why did he bother giving it to them) and then if they don't happen to hear about jesus or if they don't have the right understanding because they have grown up in uneducated poverty they also get sent to hell? the more you talk about your god the more he doesn't sound like a god at all but a higher being on a power trip

"He changed it for us for you for yourr mom for your dad for every person living on this eath" i'm sorry this may be a really stupid question but how? how did jesus directly improve life on earth?

"beacuse it was all the worlds fault or are you saying that God has to stop every big mystake we make? intead we learn form them and that's ther reason that he doesn't do anything about it, plus if he does do people would notice it because they don't even believe in him. So no is the time, is the time to do things for him, he already did things for you and the world, WHAT WILL YOU DO FOR HIM??"
no god shouldn't stop out every mistake but these weren't the world's mistakes, hilter wasn't evil because of the mistake the jews have made, children too innocent to even understand the concept of good and evil havn't made any mistakes, natural disasters are defiantly not out mistakes!!! they are all things we can't control
what does it matter if some people don't notice that god things? if god has the power to do good he should use it, why does a being so pure need recognition or anything from the human race? there is nothing we have for him accept to try and do our best for the world he made

yes i am very messed up at least we can agree on that :D
being gay is not something we invented, love is a feeling, a chemical reaction in the brain, the brain god made, we did not invent being gay, god did, atomic bombs were not made by the entire race only a few people, other religions could be the right ones how is anyone suppose to know which is the right god to follow?


just finally on the stone naughty kids remark it comes from a quote from your god's bible I can't currently quote exactly but the gist of it children who disobey and don't respect their parents should be stoned, if i remeber correctly it's from letvius

hehe :) I'm not mad, infact I was geting exited there a bit ;)
did I soud mad??

oHH but I WILL come back and debate again...

'No, I don't follow, I try to follow everything but I'm not perfect just like you I'm just a human'

That's the point. God is perfect, but humans are not, and he made his rules so that no one can follow them. You can try, but is that enough? Or will everyone who does not follow the rules COMPLETELY, which is impossible, go to Hell?

'Debs, I can't go to Huddersfield or to anyones house for that matter, plus I'm only 15 and therefore wouldn't it be better intead of doing nothing to tell you by computer instead of not telling you at all??? or you want me to magicaly appear in the front of your house and be like "oh hi, do you know about Jusus?"'

I think what debs meant is that according to the bible you should give away all your posessions. Did you do that?
I expect no.

'God gave is brains, to think what's right and wrong, and opinions to go the right path and compare what's really true, he did give us the ability to defy God, you said it yourself, but not only that he gave that he gave us the "choice" factor. In other words he is not obligating you to trust in him or to become a true Christian. So you can defy him if you want, now, one thing is certain you WILL with out question go to hell.'

I do not question wether or not I will go to Hell: I'm pretty sure that if I'm wrong, I will go to Hell.
What I question is the claim of some Christians that God is loving and mercyfull. Why would he send good people, like Mahatma Ghandi, to Hell if he is that loving and mercyfull?
Again I'm not questioning that these people 'should' go to Hell according to the Christian doctrine, I just think it's ridiculious that people believe this and STILL call God loving and mercifull.
He's not.

'...first of all you said the word "think" which makes it UNBIBLICAL...'

Yeah, imagine that you would actually think. Oh, the horror.

'second, "my logic and moral code" I'm sure you didn't give yourself that moral code. I'm also sure that you tell yourself that all the time "my moral code this, my moral code that" but if your so call "moral code" or anyone's moral code is telling them that "beleif" then it's a human opinion and is also agaist God, you should go by God's perfect code instead.'

God's code isn't perfect. You can't live in this world and live by his code.
If I killed my cheating boyfriend and the girl he cheated with, I would've been charged with murder. Yet, that is what God demands of me to do.
If I keep slaves, I would be charged with human trade, yet according to the bible it's okay, as long it's not someone from God's people.

I rather live by my own set of rules, according to which I couldn't kill my ex-boyfriend, despite the fact he cheated, and can't keep slaves.

lOOK Sapp and Debs, I'm not expecting you two to understand and I'm not gonna go on and debate something that you two are not gonna get. and therefore I'm gonna stop, since you don't understand and I'm too stupid to make you get what Christianity is all about.

but I'll make last intent:
"God's code isn't perfect. You can't live in this world and live by his code."
what do you mean.... then where E'my living Sapp in Mars???

"Yeah, imagine that you would actually think. Oh, the horror."
eEerr... NO! I don't think you understand where I'm coming from and are just talking trash about the subject.

Ok you are saying things that are untrue and going agaist God I don't expect you to understand the Bible infact you don't expect yourself to understand XD

"I rather live by my own set of rules, according to which I couldn't kill my ex-boyfriend, despite the fact he cheated, and can't keep slaves."

First of all God wouldn't tell you to kill your boyfriend or any of that stuff... this is a thing that is just unreasonable and shows that you don't have any knowlege to support your point Sapp.

"Why would he send good people, like Mahatma Ghandi, to Hell if he is that loving and mercyfull?
Again I'm not questioning that these people 'should' go to Hell according to the Christian doctrine, I just think it's ridiculious that people believe this and STILL call God loving and mercifull.
He's not."

Because Sapp if a person has not accepted Jusus Christ in their heart and they don't know that he died for us and thanks to him that TRUELY bellieve would go to heaven then no matter who you are ar how you act even if you are the most nicest or evilest person you will go to hell (I promice for my whole entire family and my God)... I'm serious about this.

"STILL call God loving and mercifull.
He's not."
what do you mean!! thanks to him you have a computer thanks to him that died in the cruz for your sins thanks to him you can do things that some others can't thanks to him you can eat every day thanks to him you are fine and healthy thanks to him your family's fine thanks to him you are you and thanks to him you have a choice.. but most of all thanks to him all your sins are gone is you give your life to him now. and jet your still talking shit about him like you knew (sorry I'm mad)

Debs turn:

WOW! I must say your brilliant ;P
good question
"how can you know for certain who is going to hell and who isn't? what if your wrong, what if god is actually the muslim god allah"
and the answer to that is "FAITH" never forget it
and do you see Allha or Budda giving their lifein the cross, NO!

"why does a being so pure need recognition or anything from the human race? there is nothing we have for him accept to try and do our best for the world he made"

only he knows, we only trust him in every aspect, he knows why he's doing this and there are thing I don't even understand about it, I sometimes do things like "what da heck is he trying to say" or "why is homosexuality a sin if we can all love and love is with no conditions" but that's his code I most ovey I MOST trust him there's rewards and their also self questions but I can't let that take over the truth!!

"being gay is not something we invented, love is a feeling, a chemical reaction in the brain, the brain god made, we did not invent being gay, god did"

ok God first creations didn't weren't a man and a man or a woman and ather woman, yes the "feeling of love" he created but the fact that that feeling is toward the same sex is another thing let along is your choise.

I'm not even gonna talk about the children it's point less I'm wasting my breath...

'First of all God wouldn't tell you to kill your boyfriend or any of that stuff... this is a thing that is just unreasonable and shows that you don't have any knowlege to support your point Sapp.'

I do have knowledge to support my point. The bible says that if a man lies with another woman, both he and the woman shall be puth to death. It says so in Leviticus 20:10 and in several other places.


'what do you mean.... then where E'my living Sapp in Mars???'

No, you just don't live according to everything the bible says. Would you put adulterers to death? Do you only wear cloths made out of one kind of fabric? Because according to Leviticus 19:19, cloths made of two kinds of fabric are prohibited.

'Because Sapp if a person has not accepted Jusus Christ in their heart and they don't know that he died for us and thanks to him that TRUELY bellieve would go to heaven then no matter who you are ar how you act even if you are the most nicest or evilest person you will go to hell (I promice for my whole entire family and my God)... I'm serious about this'

I know that good people who denounce God will go to hell: I did not question that. I questioned the fact that people believe their God will send good people to eternal damnation and still call their God 'lovin and mercifull'. It's not a very mercifull act to send good people to Hell.

'...you don't expect yourself to understand XD'

I don't understand what you mean by that.


I did not mean to make you mad.

ok...when it say's "shall be but tho death" it means that they will go to hell, were're not gonna kill them silly....
and that's it I'm not gonna forece you I'm just saying that your now warned and if you don't want to beleve then go throw that path...

hehe on the other hand Sapp thanks for the prop and well you also put up a great debate :)

why do you say that we won't get it?
we might do one day
if your right i hope we do i would rather go to heaven and than hell

your not stupid but even if you were you don't need to be super smart to explain and discuss your own believes but i'm sorry i'm causing you frustration over trying to explain to us

what i think sapp meant by not being able to live in this world and obey the code is that we will all inevitably sin in some way so before christ did every human go to hell? what about cavemen too unevolved to grasp the concept of god let alone accept him, did they all go to hell?

we're not talking trash or crap about the subject sorry if you think that but we're trying to speculate and question it we're not saying "Christianity is wrong" or "Christianity is a load of rubbish"


"thanks to him you can eat every day thanks to him you are fine and healthy"
some people can't eat everyday and if i am to read sapps previous comments correctly then she's not healthy and in fact has a serious medical condition, i myself also have a serious medical condition so thankyou oh merciful lord for allowing my mother to constantly cry herself to sleep worrying about her youngest child

he's not merciful because he doesn't give people a second chance, what if someone follows the wrong faith all their lives because they never knew anything else. They then have to spend ALL of ETERNITY in hell, how is that just or forgiving or merciful?



""how can you know for certain who is going to hell and who isn't? what if your wrong, what if god is actually the muslim god allah"
and the answer to that is "FAITH" never forget it
and do you see Allha or Budda giving their lifein the cross, NO!"

I am so glad you said this it lets me use my knowledge from the brilliant film link
do you know who horus is?
he is a egyptian sun god who was born of a virgin (iccies, not sure how to spell it) on the 25th of December 3000 years before Christ. his birth was accompanied by a star in the east and was followed by three kings. He was named the new born savior and he had 12 diciples who followed him as he performed miracles such as healing the sick but most importantly
he was crucified and three days later was resurrected

or have you heard of attis from greek mythology was born of a virgin on the 25th of December and was crucified and then resurrected three days later, all 1200 before christ

or what abou krishna from the hindu religon, same story again, 900 years bc

and there's many more figures from many different religions that were all sons sacrificed on a cross so the question again becomes how do we know which one to follow maybe krishna is the true son of a god and every Christian is going to hell for denying him




you say we must trust god but why?
just because he is powerful?
why should we trust the most powerful, it is in my experience the most powerful people are those you should not trust and i am not going to trust anyone or anything that is sending my parents (who are good moral people) to hell just because they have never experienced Christianity with out giving them a second chance.....not that i think a second chance is needed because they have done NOTHING to deserve a eternity in hell they have just tried to get along doing what they hope is for the best

i am not going to touch on the gay thing that's a debate i have many a time said my piece on and one i believe going on in the debate forums currently



anyways my whole point is how can god be as pure and good as Christians claim him to be when the rules of getting in the heaven are so strict and illogical

OMG!! i'm so mad!! I had my comment but I went to your vid DEBS so all I wrote which by the way way A lot IS ALL gone!!
*sob* *sob*
*COMPLAINS*
*cries*
that's it.... this is the last straw!! *sob* I;m not gonna write all that again....

aww that sucks, i would have been really interested to hear your say on the other jesus like figures, nay mind

I'll try it...

Hehe, um, hi everyone, I just skimmed through this, didn't really read the whole thing, but I just wanted to ask deathnote something...

"and do you see Allha or Budda giving their lifein the cross, NO!"
But you didn't really see him give his life, did you? I'm definitely not challenging your religion, just asking a question.

I feel like I should put a disclaimer at the end of this post saying "NO RELIGIOUS OFFENSE INTENDED!"
But I won't.
Because I'll probably sound like a goob.

And Debs, have you studied a lot of religions? I'm especially interested in knowing if anyone has really gone into Islam, it seems like most people haven't.

ha ha ha no i am no expert on religion i do sociology and religion is a big topic in that
but most of my information was from the documentary zeitgeist which i linked above

Well it's all in the bible people wrote from a long time ago... the TRUE bible not some other religion Bible :(
and even before he died there was predictions written thay he WAS gonna die and it came true

but what i'm saying about the other religious figures deathnote is they have been sacrificed, they have their story recorded down in religious texts just like jesus so how do you know which is the true bible

you can say you just know and you just have to have faith but people from those religions will also say that
just because christianity is the biggest religion doesn't make it right and just because they came first doesn't make them right so how do we know?

and i believe the jews and certain other old religions believe that a religious figure from god, our savior has not yet arrived and all the others including jesus are false

To what you said earlier, amazondebs, about "if God had the power to make a perfect world, why didn't he?"

The answer is: He did. In Genesis, God created the perfect world where he planned for us to live on forever. However, as God is a good God he always gave us a choice on whether we wanted to be his friend or not. Unfortunately, we turned our backs on God, ate the fruit and sinned. This cut us off from God. That is why Jesus came down to earth to save us from permanent separation from our Father. God could have created a perfect world, but because he loved us he gave us a choice.

Why didn't he make us perfect?

^ So that you can have a choice. You can have a choice in whether to believe in him or not. My religion never says to push it on other people. You can teach them about it, but it says not to go door to door and be like "Please come to our church and feel God's presence" or whatever preachers do. So anyway, that's why I'm never going to criticize any atheists or anything, cause it's their choice.

Oh, and Debs:

I know like NOTHING about other religions, politics, the economy/war (I don't feel a need to learn about politics/economy/war, but I am interested in other religions), so forgive me if I sound ignorant about stuff on this and other Debate topics. I don't mean to come off that way.

Yeh but we'd still have a choice if we were perfect people. If we weren't violent and didn't screw up.

hallemay of course you don't sound ignorant!
ignorant wouldn't be interested in learning about religions, there are many good videos and links on this spot that cinders has put up and there quite a few interesting ones in the documentary spot and the debate spot if you fancy reading up, I can't really think of one specific source off the top of my head

cocopops- according to the bible WE did not disobey god ADAM AND EVE did, that's like saying WE crucified jesus but we didn't men who were alive thousands of years ago did (if he existed)

god made us as indivduals who make our own choices that's why not all of humanity is christian because WE are not christian, you and deathnote are

I would really like to know what any of you think of the identical jesus figures in the other religions?

[and i believe the jews and certain other old religions believe that a religious figure from god, our savior has not yet arrived and all the others including jesus are false]

I know the Jews believe that the messiah hasn't arrived yet. I also think they have a more bleak view on afterlife then most, but I might be wrong.

It doesnt matter who sinned first - although Adam and Eve ate the fruit, we've all sinned aswell and fallen short of the glory of God. It was Jesus who walked on this earth for 33 years and never sinned once (and never fell short of the glory of God) who offered to become sin just so we might have a hope of knowing our loving father in Heaven

Before Jesus did everyone go to hell then?

Or did people not sin before Jesus? But we must have cause we're not perfect and we always sin....so then everybody who was born and then died before Jesus was born went to hell...or did they live by different rules and then god changed them - with Jesus arriving on earth?

Before Jesus came to Earth, there were different rules, one of them being sacrificing an animal at the altar to recieve forgiveness, that is why Jesus is also known as the Final Sacrifice.

Deathnote:...because God id bigger than the universe than everything in the world you are a microscopic mini bacteria in the eyes og the true God...

How do you know that did you invented this or does it says in the bible?

oh and debs the zeitgeist movie is not a very good source

in the movie they didnt said their sources, many of the gods they talked about weren´t born from a virgin and many of those gods werent born in december 25th

adavilla if you go the the zeitgeist site they site all their sources and have pretty much countered any questioning of them sources that have happened on the site but my point to deathnote was other people sacrifice on the cross

so while the conspiracy theories are the creaters own opinion as far as i know the facts he uses to back them up are pretty much sound

i think it's the whole sacrifice thing that really puts me off Christianity why would such a great being need any sacrifice at all , it's not like god gains anything from it?

"we've all sinned as well" but most of us who are good people make up for those sins ourselves

"I would really like to know what any of you think of the identical jesus figures in the other religions??"
they're fake XD

yeah they´re fake just like jesus

in the devine way

and just like you adavila

Ooooww... personal attack.

Anyway, I don't think it's really about wether or not the jesus-like figures were real or not. It's about the similarities in the story's.

It's kinda striking that there are a lot similarities between the bible and other legends and myths. I find it very interesting.

haha well it´s true

the guy jesus was real

but the walking on water thing??

Well, if Jesus was the son of the guy who created the world, surely he could walk on water ;)

The important word here is 'if'.

"the guy jesus was real"

well we can't prove that either way

and deathnote why are they fake? if you look at it logically you would say jesus is the fake because they came first


and i thought jesus wasn't meant to exploit his power, like when he is empted in the desert and he refuses and yet he shows off by walking on water....for what purpose? (sorry that way off topic lol)

deathnoete: ok...when it say's "shall be but tho death" it means that they will go to hell, were're not gonna kill them silly....

yeah and burning in an eternal fire with a eternal life is WAY better than being killed

'ok...when it say's "shall be but tho death" it means that they will go to hell, were're not gonna kill them silly....'

And I'm not really sure about that at all. It is after all from the Old Testament and Heaven and Hell aren't really mentioned there. It is only in the New Testament that the afterlife becomes very important.

My moral code is...well...VERY complex, let's just put it at that. Or, I can go ahead and make a fool out of myself and try to explain it. ;)

Well, see, the world is mixed with many different emotions...feels...and large varieties of... ah, see, I already lost it!!! $%#@!!!

Wow, well I cannot keep up with all the discussions going on.

I believe that, my holy text is interpreted differently with every follower, but we all have the same additude of mind.

I try to follow my religious texts as much as possible but sometimes I need to depend n my own experience.

hmmmmm that a interesting take could you give a example

it sounds like well this sounds condescending and i don't mean it like i'm just trying to further my understanding but i have a friend who's a fairly modern christian in that he's not othodoxand well he follows the bible when it makes sense to him morally e.g. "thou shalt not kill" but when it doesn't make sense to him morally such as what ever the quote is that says it's wrong to lay with another man he doesn't follow the bible which makes me wonder why he says he needs the bible.....if that makes sense

Moral codes are based entirely on your personal experience and, more than anything, in the society and family you grew up in.
Saying that you do something because those are the moral values in your religion is basically saying that you do something because those are the moral values of your family who follows a certain religion and lives in a certain society.

Anyway, it's really unlikely that you'll grow up in a modern family that believes everyone's equal and when you start living by yourself, you turn out to believe that people are not equal like your parents thought. Usually what happens is completly the contrary and the main reason is, in my opinion, the society in which a young person can now go into. That society will most likely be more modern than their parents, therefore the "new" values that person will learn will be modern, because societies tend to renew themselves.

Oh, I talk too much. :P

debs and sappp i can answer many of your questions if not all please type them no offense to deathnote but i dont think you understand or have the conversational skills to explain i am 15 true but i have read books on many different religions i am Christian and can answer your questions logically and in detail please comment back id love to help in anyway

An it harm none, do what ye will.
I go by that and my own knowledge of right and wrong.

I believe I would do idiotic things without God by my side.

I look to the Bible/Torah for strength because they share the same history as does the Qu'ran. But I do have moral goals that I have set for myself that I do not know if they are in those books, for those who are wondering I am Catholic, but I take part from other religions that don't alter my beliefs.

My logic, empathy, and life experiences.

It'd be scary if I based my moral code on my religion, since I didn't find my religion until last year 0.o

Logic, empathy and also my personal life experiences.

I don't strive for perfection, but I do understand the importance of Morality and why it's necessary. Without any form of morality, what are we? We'd be nothing but monsters.

amazondebs No, to answer your side note, humans are not better than God and are not even close. Trying to be better than God is what has caused a lot of problems in the world. God let humans have a choice and we messed up when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit that brought sin and death into the world. God doesn't want us to love Him because we are forced to. He wants us to choose to follow Him and choose to do what is right. God was good to humanity by sending us Jesus to give us a chance to get to Heaven and be with God since Jesus, fully man and fully God, died and rose again for our sins to be washed away. Humans could never be perfect enough to get to Heaven with God on their own, but God made a way. :)

I try to factor in many asepcets.