i used to be like in love with bangel but then spuffy came and i love it so much better
oh sorry if this questions already been asked

I remember really like Bangel in highschool. But looking back, I think that I just really liked Angel.. and wanted to see more of him, lol. Watching it now, I get so irritated at some of the more angsty and melodramatic Bangel scenes.

I never really liked Bangel, even before I was a Spuffy.

I was a Bangeler. Is it bad to say I used to be thrilled to see David Boreanaz's name in the opening credits in season one? And that I was thrilled when he was full time in season 2? I really did like Bangel and I don't think there is really anything wrong with the ship but just when I compare it to Spuffy I feel that Spuffy reads more like a real story and I love th dynamics much more between the two. Bangel played more towards forbidden fantasy and Spuffy was more in the passionate fire sort of territory.

Em... well... Here's my philosophy:

Bangel Vs Spuffy

Bangel wins.

no way its not bad arabella when i used to see angels name in the credits id be all "ooh angel yay" but i feel the same bout the spuffyness

lol cinders, hush you briley fan, urgh typical human :P

i always have been a spuffier, i did like bangel in season 2...and they don't bother me in season 1....after season 2 i have no comment though because it will turn in to a big anti-bangel rant

but i would never say i have ever shipped the couple,

Aren't those humans all alike Debs? Especially their skin, it's just so...tight urgh ;F

me love bangel! lol! im actually going back over 5 6 and 7 to see if i respect spuffy more and my conclusion is no, i just feel so sorry for spike all buffy does is use him and make him feel worthless especially in 5, so i cant tbh see why anyone would want to support spuffy unless the reason is they are in love with james/spike and want his character to be happy! and also i agree with season 3 bangel it gets abit too much even for me!!

oh no bangels hit the lead lol nah they're good too

no the reason i love spuffy so much is because ther interesting they're real, they're a unusual original couple

bangel is the less disney version of forbidden love, nothing about their relationship makes sense to me, they fall in love with out ever seemingly just talking, all their fights are the same one, the only reason why bangel are worth watching is for angelus....i sometimes even fast forward bangel fights lol

not all spuffiers believe spuffy should be together in their happily ever after castle so spike can be happy (at least he could be happy ;P ohhhhhh yes i went there lol)
infact most spuffiers know this would never happen but spuffy is the better couple to watch on screen and there for my ship because they do have layers and a interesting concept bangel is just a little too melodrama and not real enough at all for me

briley is real so i do like briley, it's just well wasn't half as interesting because of the lack of passion from buffy....infact i think pity riley more than spike

Yep. But i still love Bangel too just not the same. I mean they were the first and if it weren't for them Spuffy would of never been.

what do you mean mel?

My anti-Bangel rants go in from about mid-season two actually, or even with Prophecy Girl it can start there, and well with Spuffy, you have to look deeper into the layers to get it.

The thing about Spuffy is that their problems came from themselves, like a real couple. Bangel always had problems shoved at them from outside sources to make it look more interesting, but to me it just came out more melodrama than anything else.

Like debs, I liked that Spuffy grew in love, they knew each other before they were saying I love you.

In my mind they saved each other. He helped her get in touch with the dark side of herself she'd been denying, he gave her the strength to want to fight again in season seven, and she saved him from being a regular run of the mill vampire into something bigger.

It might seem like she was using him on the surface, and in a way she was, but it went deeper than that. He was the only one she could trust, the only one she could talk to, and the only one who ever understood her.

i am sorry, i just felt like we hadnt had a good debate in agessss!! :D but were have all my fellow bangelers gone?? i agree i actually like briley, i just cant seem to understand at what point she started to "feel" for spike it just seemed to come at of nowhere!!ok the same can be said for angel but there was chemistry right form there first meeting and she gradually fell for him and then fell it love for me it was more believable, but i actually am a massive disney fan so that could contribute towards why i feel that way, i like my tv couples to have that whats the word you know meet attracted then fall for each other, it might not be the most realistic thing ever but, ok ive lost my though i just cant think of the right words! lol! oh and give me some more bangelus moments thats what i now wish for, i love that just that little bit more!! well if it was still around!

In my opinion Bangel scenes always seem so wooden to me, DB never wears an expression other than 'blah' around her. And I can't stand who Buffy and Angel are around one another. When they are together, they are not people I would want to be around.

And Buffy had started to trust Spike a long time before she fell for him. She trusted him in season five with her sister Dawn, the one thing that she held most dear to her. She understood he was the only other one that would protect her. She even trusted him in Becoming, because she knew him. She knew that he could love Drusilla, and that she could trust him with that. I think her feelings started to change around Intervention, but Buffy guards her heart more after it's been ripped open by the numerous men in her life (her father, Angel, even Riley to an extent), so she doesn't show it the way she use to. She's grown up. It seems less passionate, not because it is, but because it's matured.

And numerous other characters could see the chemistry between them as well. Harsh Light of Day you had Parker asking if Spike was her ex boyfriend. Glory calling Spike her boyfriend. In SB, Buffy and Spike in love, but still fighting, even though Willow had never specified that they had to be in love, just get married.

Buffy and Spike had high moments and low moments. When they were high, they were really high, and when they were low they were really low. The fact that they could hurt each other so much in season six, but grow past that into something beautiful in season seven means everything. The fact that he changed everything he was for her, the fact that she needed him and defended him even though all her friends were telling her to kill him, the fact that they gave each other the strength to go on fighting is what made them beautiful.

I read in a Spuffy essay once, that Bangel was more like two people static, timeless, unmoving, always facing face to face.

And Spuffy was about two people standing side to side, as equals, not gazing at each other, lost in the moment, but alongside each other, knowing exactly what the other needs at the time, and being the person that can provide that (like the porch scene at the end of Fool For Love, or the scene in Never Leave Me).

For me I guess I see Bangel, Spuffy, and Cangel the way Jane Espenson sees them. Bangel was the idealized first love. I see Spuffy and Cangel as the more adult, messy, mature loves of people who connected on a more kindred level.

Spike and Buffy had known each other for years before they could be called true love (if it exists), they saw each other grow and change, and they always had a connection, (and Buffy even says that in Lover's Walk when she says Spike is the only one she can't fool). Angel and Buffy had barely known each other a few months before they were saying they were in love. He saw her a fifteen sucking on a lollipop, and about two episodes before Buffy told Angel she loved him, she was going out with another guy. Spike and Buffy reads to me as something more unique, more raw, and more passionate. Angel and Buffy read to me like a high school relationship.

ok whoa there a lotta ranting:i love it lol
well iagree with debs especially bout the bangel fights but not bout briley coz (no offence to peoples who luv em) i hate em
and nikas awesum rant is incredible i do agree about the lollipop thing but its not that dont like bangel coz i do i just LOVE spuffy they're amazing i mean it may not be conventional but it works
but nikas right angel never did show expression around buffy i know he loved her but i was hard to tell spike i mean he was different around her it was obvious that he cared and he didnt leave when itgot tough to me thats what angel did i know he said it was to give her a normal life but come on shes the slayer normal is not her shes tried it doesnt work and while i like angel i think he was cowardly there
ooh bangel/briley fans dont be mad this is just my opinion and mild rant

Wow, NikaDawson, you made a great point. I never thought about the fact that Buffy and Spike were in love in Something Blue. You're right, Willow never said anything about them having to love each other, they just had to get married. Nice job! :)

ooh right never thought bout that either by the way nosemuffin i luv your new icon

awww dam it nika you beat me to it on the "it cae out of now where point"

see spuffy had a very slowly evolving relationship as nika has described in detail but bangel lacks that completley
i challenge any bangel to show me their relationship progression in a way that makes sense and doesn't seem like as nika said the young fake relationships you have when your younger when you say your in love but your not and it's all a big thing to try and be mature

anyways you have to give mkena some applause as for some reason all buffy my buffy friends offline love bangel and yet on here mkena seems to be the only one fending the bangel corner :(
oh we need the joker, scififan, tisha, or even cinders to come help her lol

oh and jackie i completley agree on the angel leaving even though i'm not a bangel i was still yelling at the tv "what the hell are you doing you moron, she's never gona be normal she wants you, don't you dare walk in to that smoke, hey!, hey, come back!"

yeah especially as i am the worst arguer out of the lot of us bangelers!! lol!

lol i could take a wack at it i'm always up for debate but it just feels so wrong

No debs, no *clings to debs*, lol.

at first i was go bangel but now i see what an idiot i was, SPUFFY 4EVER!

lol nika don't worry i would never abandon my spuffiers lol

lol good debs you're one of the best ranters
but i dontr know bout the bangel coming outta nowhere they did get together outta
nowhere (if that makes sense) but the flirting was there and i think buffy realized she had a thing for angel in teachers pet her "oh boy" as he walked away and he gave her his jacket but i dont know

Thankfully, my second twinlet can't abandon, lol.

And agree, you are one of the best Spuffy commenters.

I am a horrible debater, which is usually why I don't get into the debates but there seems to be no one else for Bangel. I don't think I'm going to help much, especially after reading NikaDawson's rant about Spuffy, where she made some really good points. I'm not anti-Spuffy, I just really like Bangel. From the beginning of season 1 I became a Bangel fan, and loved them the whole time. But I could always tell that Spike and Buffy had chemistry (I don't know anyone that would deny that) but I liked them as enemies, if that makes sense. I think the main reason I didn't like Spuffy was I felt Spike cared for Buffy much more than Buffy cared for him. She seemed to walk all over him, and I felt bad. She never seemed to care for Spike as much as she did for Angel. Spuffy had some great moments, but to me it seems that Buffy's heart would always belong to Angel (wow that sounded really mushy and corny), but that's how I always felt. I liked that from the first time they saw each other, they kinda fell in love. Anyways I didn't really help that much, but Bangel just seemed to belong together more than Spuffy in my eyes.

I also Love Spike and Drusilla together and their strange relationship!

i dont know what your worried about georgiapeach91 you're a good debater and its nice to have some bangel there hardly any now that comment

Haha, thanks. I was surprised that there was hardly anyone debating for Bangel so I gave it a shot. But there are some really good Spuffy debaters in this spot.

yay theres another one!! lol!! i get exactly what you mean georgia you can actualy word everything better than me i will say that!! lol!!

i don't think the reason why the buffy spike relationship was more one sided was anything to do with spike/buffy/angel or how much they cared for one another

i think it was more what buffy was going through at the time plus her history with loosing people that was why she acted why she acted, as nika pointed out above they were for one another what they needed at the time, buffy couldn't have shown her affection in the same way because of the place she was in at the time
and spike knew that attentioin and understanding was what buffy needed

Pretty much agree with debs. I also think part of the reason that it seems Buffy doesn't care as much, is that she's older, and has been hurt before. She guards her heart more, and doesn't show it the same way.

spuffy will always be the most perfect couple in btvs 2 me but i didn't mind bangel .

I <3 BANGEL!!!!!!!!!

When I was watching Buffy, I kept telling Debs like my everythought on all the episodes and she was a bit miffed when she thought I was turning into a Bangel...er but after a while I started thinking "Just get lost, you are bugging me now. Ok so you can't be together or the entire world will like implode so just leave already"
Then after one Spike speech, I was 100% spuffster.

spuffy high five :P

I have always been a Bangel fan, from the very beginning of Buffy to the end, and all the way through AtS too. At first, I really really hated Spuffy (though part of that is my feelings about them in season 6) and Cangel, but I can now appreciate each of these relationships and what they bring to the show. However, I can't escape the feeling that each relationship is rather a temporary substitute for Bangel rather than one that can actually challenge or replace it in the sense of what it means to Buffy/Angel.

I don't think that Buffy and Angel fell in love straight away or that their relationship didn't have any build-up, I just think that it had less time to develop on screen than Spuffy, since Spike was in the series from season 2 onwards whereas Angel was only there series 1-3 (plus season 1 was effectively only half a season) - Spuffy had more on-screen time to develop its 'layers' than Bangel did, which is why some people think that it is deeper. It seems to me that a lot of Spuffiers seem to argue that Bangel is a more shallow relationship because Buffy and Angel were attracted to each other and shared chemistry from when they first met, but I don't think that this in any way weakens their relationship! Sometimes when you first meet someone, you are attracted to them, and this may or may not develop into something more, but a relationship that develops from hatred is not necessarily a stronger one, it just has further to go and so naturally takes longer to develop. Buffy and Angel knew each other for almost two years before they slept together/admitted their love in Surprise, which isn't a short period of time. They learnt to rely on each other, to trust each other, and got to know each other through months and months of fighting side by side, and one of the reasons that some of their development as a couple isn't seen on screen is that, due to the nature of the earlier seasons, much of the episodes are centred on school, which obviously Angel cannot be involved in. But their initial attraction and connection does develop, and you see it develop, as much as is possible given the limitations of the show, into a friendship and then into love. Furthermore, throughout the majority of season 3, they are not a couple, and yet they still spend a huge amount of time together - Angel's mansion becomes Buffy's escape, her haven, where she can be with him and be herself away from the pressures of school/Giles/her mother because Angel makes her feel safe, as he did in season 2 when she chooses to go to his apartment in What's My Line rather than to Xander's or Willow's or her own house. With Angel, she can be Buffy, she doesn't have to always be just the Slayer or the dutiful daughter. Yet he also helps her immensely with her Slayer abilities.

I also don't think that just because Bangel were first loves, this makes them
"the young fake relationships you have when your younger when you say your in love but your not and it's all a big thing to try and be mature".
My relationship with my boyfriend began when I was 17, I'm now 20, and he is my first love. But the fact that our relationship began when I was young does not mean that it is "fake" or an attempt to be mature, and the same is true for Bangel. Besides, Buffy has always been older than she really is due to the responsibility she bears as the Slayer and the things she has seen.

Spuffy is an interesting relationship, and develops a lot. Personally I disliked Spuffy because of their relationship in season 6, which was harmful to both of them and severely damaged Buffy's sense of self-worth. Buffy used Spike, and he tried very very hard to further alienate her from her friends because he wanted to possess her fully and make her believe she was a creature of darkness. On the other hand, Angel saw both the light and the dark in Buffy: he saw her as a beacon of hope and goodness, but also understood and appreciated her strength and the darkness of her Slayer abilities, and helped her to hone and develop them. Now in a way this is not a fair comparison, because in season 6 Spike doesn't have a soul, but at the same time it is relevant because season 6 is the only time that Spike & Buffy are in a relationship.

On the other hand, I think a lot of the interaction between Spike and Buffy in season 7 is very beautiful, but she was never in love with Spike. She could have been, given more time, but she wasn't. She started to trust him, (and I don't agree that she fully trusted him in season 6: she knew his strength, knew he couldn't physically hurt Dawn and that he would protect Dawn because he felt affection for her, but she didn't trust him with herself or with her heart) although she was utterly convinced that he was killing again at first, so it was a slow-ish process, but she did learn to. I liked their friendship, but it never developed into a relationship due to his death. And for me, Bangel still feels more real, and it is clear that Buffy wants Angel for the long-term if she is ever ready for that, because they have not stopped loving each other, despite the distance between them and despite everything they have each been through: loss, battle, other relationships....At the end of the day, all roads lead back to each other.

I think I liked Bangel at the time but I never really cared about them. When Spuffy came along I fell in love!

I love them both equally! Spuffy is more realilistic, and they grow more over time...but Bangel...their soulmates. You can't really top that. So it would have to be a tie(also, it's not really fair to Angel, i didn't like Buffy much in the first few seasons, for some reason)

Forever <3

I cant decide between the too. My favourite charater from buffy would have to be spike cuz hes really funny but angel and buffy are a great couple..

In the first season i thought Angel was so HOT. and i tought that Buffy and Angel was going to be for ever. then when spike first appeared i only saw him as a villain. then in season four, i started to realize how hot he was. then i was a Spuffy fan until the end, even in the ANGEL series!

No way!!!!!!!!!!

*gag* No way, Spuffy non stop

I ADORE BA
I understand spuffy fans that never liked BA and are SB because it makes so sense!
I understand who likes BOTH
I DISLIKE EX BANGEL I mean.. you have an ideal and the next day you think the OPPOSITE? woohoo don't ever join politics or the army!xD

Bangel's an OTP of mine, but Spuffy's extremely growing on me

I like spuffy, but bangel is mine OTP

BANGEL 4EVER I hated Spuffy as soon as I found out about it