I just want to point out that nearly every anti I've spoken to on this spot has either read a minimum of one of the books or at least seen the movie. You started by saying 'unlike many antis' you've read the books, but it's not unlike many antis. Almost all the antis I've spoken to have read at least one of the books and many people here have read all 4. I think if you look around the spot at the debate picks (so the serious ones rather than the more light hearted or ranty ones) you'll see most of our antis are very well informed on the series.

I disagree that reading part of the book series isn't enough, as long as you don't debate on things you are not informed about and remain open to fan opinion. I've read the first book, as well as passages relevant to the points I debate from all four. I am well versed on the plot points I talk about. I have never claimed knowledge if I wasn't sure of a point, and am always open to being corrected (even about the parts I have read, because as I didn't enjoy them I only read it once so could forget something)
I also think it's ok to debate something if you know the facts, even if you haven't read how Meyer puts it. For example I know about the Jacob/Renesme relationship. I know how Meyer has excused it, I know what happens and I know the situation surrounding the events. I think as long as I remain open to correction about it, since I am well informed it is fair for me to express my opinion about that relationship. As long as people are well informed and have an actual point, not just hating for the sake of it because they don't want to jump on a bandwagon, them expressing their opinion is completely valid.

I also want to say, in response to you saying
"For all you know, halfway through Stephanie Meyer has a not saying "Okay, all of that is a joke. The REAL book starts now." and the rest of the book is the next great epic"
To me it doesn't matter in the slightest if she did that (even though obviously we know she didn't since we all talk to Twilighters so often here, they would have brought it up for a start). Writing one book that glorifies abuse would not become ok if in the next book she said 'only kidding'. The first book would still exist, still send a bad message and still have influenced people, my opinion of Twilight wouldn't change if Stephenie Meyer said she was only kidding, just like if someone punched me in the face then said 'nah, I like you really' it wouldn't stop me being mad they punched me in the face.

Mermaid-tail, you rule!

@SimplyLaurel, first of all, we don't need ALLCAPS, we can adjust the text size in our browser if we need to. Maybe it's a personal quirk of mine, but just reading that title has made me be on the defensive.

Mermaid-tail has already stated about everything, so I won't write anything long. Just one thing: what makes you think most of us haven't read the books? The whole "you didn't read the books!" thing is an assumption some people make when they have no better arguments. As it has already been said, make yourself at home and you'll see we are not saying "Twilight sucks just because". That would level us with those whose only point in favor of Twilight is "Edward is hot." We're not here to bash, we're here to discuss and that, you can only do if you know your topic well enough to provide evidence and arguments.

ETA: I've just seen you've been around for quite a while. My fault. By the way, I've read the three first books, they were my guilty pleasure and I've been Team Trilogy until recently. I haven't read BD, I won't read it, but I know my way around. I know, for example, Isle Esme is on the West coast of Brazil, that vampires have 25 (pairs of) chromosomes and that former-werewolves-now-renamed-shapeshifter­s-j­ust­-be­cau­se-­it-­sou­nds­-co­ole­r have 24.

I've actually read all the books (Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse and Breaking Dawn) and so I can safely express my opinions of the book :D

I am aware that there are a few anti's that have not read the books, and I don't think that's very good either. But a lot of anti's have read the books. I think if an anti has read the first two, for example, then they can freely discuss the first two books, but probably shouldn't talk much about the third and fourth.

But you do make a good point. :)

Touche.

I suppose I didn't look around this spot enough before I posted this. I knew that most of the members here weren't just casual "I hate it because it's popular" people. That bit was thrown in there in case there were a few. I didn't expect it to apply to many people. I'm glad most of the users here have read at least one of the books. I didn't decide to write this in response to something I saw in THIS spot, but in response to some things I read in a Twilight spot. But I decided that if I posted this in that spot, some of the less mature Twihards would just see it as me glorifying their rabid behavior. And give them a new way to taunt antis.

But when I said "many antis," I wasn't talking about the antis here. I was talking about less mature antis from other websites/spots. I REALLY should have clarified that, MY BAD! D:

And the "Okay, all of that is a joke. The REAL book starts now." thing was...stupid. That part was my weak sarcasm rearing it's ugly head. :P

The more I think about it and the more exploring I've done on this spot makes me feel even more foolish for posting this. Clearly, the people I ended up talking to are not the people I'm talking about. I'm preaching to the choir.

The best I can say is that if my original post offended you, you probably aren't the kind of anti I'm talking about...unless you're offended because that is exactly what you're like.

Aw, don't apologize! Here, have a cookie instead! (Well, it's not a cookie, but the closest Fanpop icon equivalent...)

I feel so embarrassed! And I was questioning the rape of the CAPSLOCK myself. :/

The whole thing about "Most antis haven't read the books" was a reflection of people in my school and other websites/spots.

And thanks for the cookie!

The post didn't offend me, I just thought it would be best to make sure people knew our spot members are in general knowledgable about the books, and we don't condone hating on Twilight for the sake of it with no solid point behind it.

As someone who has more than once heard someone say "I hate Buffy the vampire slayer...well, no I haven't actually seen any of it." I completely understand how frustrating it is to hear someone insult something when they have no information about it (someone I know once went on a big rant about how the actors from that show are talentless, before admiting he'd never seen any of them act. I was about ready to throw a pie in his face)

No need to be embarrassed. Most of the anti's here have read the books, but I'm sure there are some like you described.

I don't blame you SimplyLaurel it's actually the biggest pet peeve in the world to me when someone goes ahead and judges something without actually knowing anything about it (when you grow up with a dad like mine you'll understand - the biggest know-it-all who actually knows nothing around). If I didn't know better I might have done the same thing.

But a lot of the anti's here (or neutrals like me) used to be fans and turned against it for some reason or another and that's why the spot is so popular. If you look around we've actually got quite a lot to discuss because we are familiar with the books. I've read the each book at least one and half times each (couldn't take Breaking Dawn the second time round) and a lot of other people have similar stories.

I absolutely agree. You can't have a valid opinion on something you know very little about. I have read Twilight, New Moon, most of Eclipse and excerpts from Breaking Dawn and seen both movies, so I know for the most part what I am talking about. Thank you. That's all.

I do agree with you. I'm not saying that most of the anti twilight people have not read the books but I hate it when a person hates something "just because" or because its popular and they want to be different. That just annoys me. At least try something before you judge it.

Oh, I've read 'em. They're still boring though. It's just Bella going on about how beautiful he is...

I've read the first one, seen the first movie, and before I go saying something I saw on a hater pic, I ask "what does that mean" or "why do people say that?"

I've read the books.

okay i will admit that i haven't read the books and does rant against twilight now before you start attacking me just hear me out. Its not that i hate twilight like you said i haven't read it so its unfair to make that judgement. However i tend to side with the antitwilights because of the twilight fans. though i admit now that its not as bad as before it was bad twilight fans would post twilight content everywhere and most of it was repeated or in the wrong spot and anytime we said anything against it they went off on us and started this huge war so thats why i do what i do. just wanted to state my opinon

I've read the first book and started the second, but I got bored and stopped (and I've tried to read that book again, but Bella and Edward's annoying lovey-doveyness just got...old).

I ACTUALLY READ THEM THAT'S WHY I HATE THEM THEY WERE A WASTE OF TIME

I don't know why people make such a big deal of the Twilight books. If you read them then you read them, if you didn't read them you didn't read them. Just because an anti didn't read the books and they heard it about some where else can still mean they don't think the Twilight Saga is appealing in there eyes. We all get the same message from the books we just all interpret them differently. :D

I read the first page and cracked up laughing the writing was so bad - this happened before it was popular

I have read every twilght book and seen the movies. After I finished breaking dawn I went back and read a couple harry potter books to keep my brain from turning to mush. The writing is childish and belongs on a fanfiction site. It's horrible. At least Harry Potter makes you think a little and I still cry everytime dumbledore dies. Twilight couldn't stir up emotion like that in a million years. HARRY POTTER IS TOTALLY AWESOME!!

I have read all the four books and I'm big fan of Twilight but Sometimes the books be boring
but i just want to say something to (darcos_cuite3)that twilight stir up the emotion a lot but I think that you don't have an emotion.(or you are just reading for fun or waste of the time)

but I think that you don't have an emotion

@Sharpay_Wolf Well, tbh I don't think Twilight is emotionally captivating at all. Sure I feel sorry for a few of the characters at some points in the books but it didn't get me all bawling (just worried).

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that if dracos_cutie3 thinks that 'Twilight couldn't stir up emotion like that in a million years', that doesn't mean she doesn't have any emotions.

true cuz u shouldnt judge the book by itz cover
n the movie isnt az good az the books
the books are better period

i think if u realli want 2 read twilight then read it if u start readin other dark romances cuz thats how i randomli picked up the books (the other 1s r on purpose) but movies are onli good 4 thos who can see the differences between those two kind of technologi n not try 2 compare them

seek out the inspirations of both 2 add in2 ur memories/imaginations, even miraculously ur dreams

the pt of it all are in the bookz if u read them
otherwise u will onli see the pt of the movie if u onli watch it

but then all the twilight bookz n moviez r 2 aid our focus not on any of them but the life ur living so that u can find out the moral aspects of it all

if u onli read bookz 4 fun n watch moviez 4 fun then nothing will satisfy ur knowledge whatz good/bad about/in the movie and/or book

bookz arent 4 nerdz
the 1s who write them even read them
all of us twilight readers are vampire like the bible readers are christians

u like some kind of a genre u are it otherwise u are the hater of it

I have read the books. well the last 3 books and to say, Breaking Dawn was the only good one...until i found out that Jacob is a pedo...well that ruins everything (well, My young mind is broken. all thanks to twilight.)

I don't think Twilight is that bad... The plot overall is good. But the poor writing and over-romanticizing stuff(Bella and Edward sitting on Bella's bed moaning about how they loved each other)is very disturbing. And those freaking sparkling vampires. Okay, that one was a little sarcastic, but it freaks the hell out of me.

I understand where you're coming from, as I know many people who hate Twilight and have never read it. But you realize that the tag for this club is an INTELLIGENT discussion. I may be wrong as I am new to this club, but so far, people are giving me just that.

I personally think that intelligent discussion requires reading the books/watching the movies (the second one is a little more iffy). But intelligent discussion usually comes from at somewhat intelligent people and somewhat intelligent people know what they're getting themselves into joining this club. It's a pretty big generalization to make, saying that no one here has read the book. But I understand where you're coming from. Really.

On a side note, dracos_cutie3 (I totally agree with that name, by the way), did you get the TOTALLY AWESOME thing from AVPM? If so, good work. :)

I've read all four books more than once (when I still used to be a fan), and so have most of the antis. I would never judge a book without reading it first.

Trust me Simply Laurel, unfortunately I did endure the four books of torture that is Twilight. Been there done that. But at the time I actually liked it. Then I realised how rubbish it was a year later, long after my young mind was shattered!! I don't mean to be mean (snigger) but I just hate it. And seeing the fans at the first screening of the movie at my local theatre was chilling! Poor writing and I know that it's a work of fiction but Meyer made an unrealistic mess of something very real indeed, love. I don't hold anything against Meyer or any fans slash antis it's just that I don't like Twilight! Soz, rant over. :P

PS, good point KissOfDoom, I would never judge a book by it's cover (soz, I'm full of cliches) or by the fans for that matter and the vast majority of the antis have read the books.

PSS to answer the question at the end (about the twihard) you say "Yes, I read half of the first one and gagged. I'm sorry, I don't dislike you or any of the fans, or even Meyer but I just think Twilight is c&%$"

Very well said, good for you :)

I'm glad to see most of the antis have read them! Well done guys.

There's just one thing you said that I'd like to address:
"I understand that many people don't want to just seem like they're following trends and liking things just because they're popular,"

I would love to talk to someone who didn't like the Twilight series for this reason >:) This is the single stupidest reason I have ever heard for anything in my entire life.

I've read all of the boks, including the midnight sun extra bit and watched 3 of the movies and the trailer for the 4th onre but I still don't like it that much. It's okay but I don't see how amazing it it

No thank you. I shall not ever read those books. I'm not even allowed to so it'd be impossible to read them anyway.

I have read the books and have seen all 4 movies. Like a lot of teenage girls, I've had my Twilight-fan time when I was 13 and 14. I devoured those books about 5-10 times. But when I was 15, I tried reading them again and I just wasn't getting into it. I tried Harry Potter instead and really liked that, it replaced my Twilight obsession (only that I don't plan to read those books 5-10 times in a span of 2 years LOL there are too many of them).

No, but I understand where you're getting at. Trying to get my cousin to watch Twilight was hard. She stated that she hated Twilight before even watching or reading them. After about 4 years, she finally watched the first movie. My goal was unsuccessful because she hated it, but still. Watch before you rant. I'd actually advise people to watch the movie first instead of reading the books. I always get bored midway through each of the books but the plot picks up towards the end. The films are right to the point, so there's no period of dragging like in the books.

I wouldn't really recommend the Twilight series to anyone. Maybe a 12 year old girl just so that they can get used to reading longer books. I wouldn't really consider Twilight as a book that should be taken seriously. More like an escapist book to read when your bored.

I've read the book and I've even had the horrible pleasure of watching the movies. Can't critize if you haven't atleast read one of the books, but I still don't like them in fact reading the books and seeing the movies has made me hate the series even more and has gotten me to bitch about it even more. Then there's this response I hear from every Twi-tard, "If you don't like the books, why read them?" Because you moron, you just told me I couldn't put an opinion in if I've never read them. With Twi-tards you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. What makes so many people think if us haters read the books that we're all going to magically fall in love with them? It works like this, we don't cram what we like down your throats, we would respect you not to do the same.

does not compute!

Honestly, I just think Meyer could have done some homework first on vampires.

I've only read Twillight and New Moon.